WHO BEAT WHO?

TALES FROM THE AMATEURS

(Part One)

An excerpt from "The Iceman Diaries"

by

"ICEMAN' JOHN SCULLY

John Scully, the amateur, with Sugar Ray Leonard

One aspect of boxing that I have always been very intrigued by is the results of amateur fights involving boxers that went on to become champions and contenders.

The national amateur tournaments are full of potential champions and if you ever get a chance to go check one out then by all means go and do so because you will be seeing the future stars of boxing. I have been to many of these tournaments as both a boxer and as a coach and I witnessed dozens of future stars and thousands of interesting results.

For example, I saw Roy Jones, Jr. when he was 19 years old, Shane Mosley and Mark “Too Sharp” Johnson when they were 16, and Bones Adams when he was just 13. I saw Lawrence Clay-Bey very early in his amateur career in local tournaments the Connecticut area (where I grew up) and I was present at the same Golden Gloves tournament back in 1983 (as a spectator) that featured a 201-pound 16 year old named Michael "The Tank" Tyson.

There are many excellent amateur boxers who didn't pan out for one reason or another as professionals. Because of that, they don't get the respect I feel they deserve. Many of them were tremendous amateur boxers who were looked at in the same light (at the time) as the guys who went on to become superstars in the game. In other words, there were times when future stars like Riddick Bowe, Roy Jones and Shane Mosley were not the top guys in their respective weight class and the guys who were actually rated above them back then are guys you likely wouldn't recognize if they walked by you today on your own street.

A perfect example of what I am talking about is reflected in the professional record of former undisputed middleweight champion Bernard Hopkins. You all know the big names he fought, stars like Roy Jones, Antonio Tarver, Oscar De La Hoya and Jermain Taylor, who were all great former amateurs in their day; but those of us who know the deal are also impressed with his impressive wins over former top flight amateurs Dennis Milton, Adam Garland and Roy Richie.

Garland in particular was an elite U.S. amateur back in the early 1980s who many thought had the power and style to become a real force as a professional, but for whatever one of the million reasons that some guys don't pan out to full potential, he didn't make it to the heights that peers of his (at 165 pounds) like Virgil Hill and Michael Nunn did. And for the record, Hopkins also scored professional victories over several other former top-class U.S. amateurs including Joe Lipsey, Percy Harris, and Willie Kemp.

It is also amazing and interesting to me that you can be at what might appear to be an average run of the mill tournament somewhere and you will have no idea who the guys on the show may or may not turn out to be in the future. Like the night of February 16, 1983 at the New England Golden Gloves tournament in Lowell, Massachusetts, for example, when bout number eight that night saw "Irish" Mickey Ward and Joey Gamache match up in a 132-pound bout, while bout number 14 saw John Wilkinson defeat future IBF world title challenger Kevin Daigle, and bout number 21 featured a fierce 16-year old heavyweight by the name of Tyson.

So here we go with just some of the most interesting amateur fights from days gone by that I remember either seeing live or reading about:

Future world light heavyweight champion and IBF heavyweight champ Michael Spinks lost a decision to future well known trainer Tommy Brooks in the 1975 National AAU finals at 165 pounds. In the finals of the 1976 National Golden Gloves (I have it on video tape), at 132 pounds, future great Aaron "The Hawk" Pryor won a decision over another future legend in Tommy "Hit Man" Hearns (back when amateur boxers didn't wear head gear). Later on, in the qualifying tournament for the 1976 Olympics, Pryor defeated future WBA lightweight champion Hilmer Kenty before losing a decision to Howard Davis Jr. (in what was the second time that Howard defeated Aaron as an amateur). Pryor also scored a 1976 decision over future IBF 140-pound world champion Gary Hinton. Hearns went on to beat future title challengers Bobby Joe Young (twice) and Ronnie Shields in 1977.

The 1991 world amateur championship final saw future professional world champions Vernon Forrest and Kostya Tzyu match up at 139 pounds with Kostya landing more than a few solid and very accurate straight right hands on his way to capturing a solid decision over his much taller opponent. Also in 1991, Vernon won the U.S. Championships with consecutive victories over Terron Millet, Ross Thompson, Lamar Murphy and Stevie Johnston.

Vernon then turned around and had another spectacular week at the 1992 U.S. Olympic Trials where he defeated future world title challenger Robert "Push Up" Frazier, and a pair of future world champions in "Sugar" Shane Mosley and Stevie Johnston on his way to the championship at 139 pounds.

Vernon also once scored an amateur decision over future IBF welterweight champion Michael Piccorillo.

People know Chris Byrd as a former IBF heavyweight champion and some even remember him back when he was a 165-pound amateur in the 1992 Olympics. But I remember Chris way back when he was a 139-pound amateur who twice lost to Todd Foster in 1988. Once, in the finals of the U.S. Championships and again in the U.S. Olympic Trials a few months later, Chris won a final-round decision over future IBF junior middleweight champion Paul Vaden in that same tournament one year later (the 1989 USA/ABF championships) in the 156 pound class.

In what may be Byrd's most interesting amateur result, he was once stopped (on an RSC) at 165 pounds by another future champ in Joe Calzaghe in a USA-Italy meet in December of 1992.

Future WBA middleweight champ William Joppy lost by decision to Chris Byrd at the 1992 U.S. Olympic Trials at 165 pounds. Joppy also fought, and defeated future world title challenger Antwun Echols in the amateurs. At the 1992 Eastern U.S. Olympic Trials Joppy scored a quarterfinal round decision over future cruiserweight contender Ravea Springs on his way to the gold medal at that tournament.

In the 156-pound final of those same 1992 Olympic Trials Raul Marquez scored a wide decision over future contender Echols, a semi-final win that week over future WBO middleweight champ Lonnie Bradley and a quarterfinal stoppage over future contender (and two-time Hopkins challenger) Robert Allen.

Another quarterfinal bout in the 156-pound class that week saw Bradley score a decision over future WBC 154-pound champion Keith Mullings.

Future heavyweight contenders David Izon (then known as David Izonreti) and David Tua met up in the 1992 Olympic semi-finals in the 201 pound division where Izon captured a decision victory.

Roy Jones scored decisions over future professional title holders and contenders such as Derrick "Poppy Too Sweet" Rolon, NABF middleweight champ Fabian Williams, WBO junior middleweight champ Verno Phillips, title challenger Thomas Tate, Ray McElroy, WBC 168-pound champion Richie Woodhall of England (in the ‘88 Olympics) and WBA 168-pound champ Frank Liles (twice). “RJ” also lost decisions to Liles and WBC middleweight champ Gerald McClellan.

McClellan beat Tim Littles in the finals of the 1987 U.S. national championships and defeated Jones in the 1988 National Golden Gloves while losing (in other tournaments) to Thomas Tate, Liles and, more than once, to McElroy.

Littles lost three times to Liles (as pros they split two bouts) while defeating future WBO light heavyweight champ and world heavyweight champ Michael Moorer (twice) and Antoine Byrd once at the 1985 Eastern Trials. Littles also defeated future world title challenger Dan Schommer at a mid 80's national tournament (Schommer himself had defeated the very formidable Bomani Parker in an earlier amateur event).

It's kind of funny to think Liles defeated three powerhouses at 156 like Roy Jones, Tim Littles and Gerald McCllelan, while in 1987, at 147 pounds, he was out-pointed pretty convincingly by the light punching welterweight Kenny Gould.

U.S. Championships results from “The Amateur Boxer”, May 1987:

“147 pounds: Frank Liles said after his match with Gould, ‘I just had an off day. I felt really sluggish.’ Well, Frank, even a gadfly might feel sluggish around Kenneth.

“156 pounds: Timothy Littles of Flint is a pretty boxer but a round and a half of Gerald McClellan's straight on, no nonsense hard punching took away his cuteness and his legs. Littles impressed with his boxing skills but he eventually wilted against McClellan's murderous punching.”

I was there for some of those fights including Jones’s fights with Liles, McElroy, McClellan and Williams. The Jones-McClellan fight was a back and forth affair that saw ‘RJ’ backed to the ropes often but he constantly fought off the ropes with great flurries of combinations. Good fight. And when Roy beat Fabian Williams I remember that Roy hit Fabian with a good shot that knocked him down and while Fabian was receiving the mandatory eight-count I was standing next to Hartford trainer Johnny Duke who told me, “If the kid (Jones) is a smart fighter then he'll come right out and go to the body right away.”

Sure enough, once the action resumed Roy came right out and went right to the body with a left hand. Duke wisely explained to me afterwards that when a boxer is hurt or stunned his first reaction will be to cover his head so the guy attacking him should plan for that and go for his usually unprotected body right away. Good advice that I still use with my own boxers to this day.

Future IBF cruiserweight champion Al "Ice" Cole beat Michael Moorer once at 165 pounds and won one of three bouts with 1988 Olympic gold medalist Andrew Maynard at 178 pounds. Cole also beat Bomani Parker in the 1988 Olympic Trials at 178 pounds but lost in earlier competitions to the spectacular amateur trio of 165 pound stars Darin Allen, William Guthrie (he actually defeated Guthrie once in three or four tries) and Anthony Hembrick. Also at 165 pounds, Cole defeated future WBO title challenger (to Chris Eubanks) Dan Schommer and future WBO 175 pound champion Leonzer Barber.

In a fight that most true boxing fans are aware of, Lennox Lewis won his 1988 Olympic Gold Medal with a championship night stoppage victory over fellow future heavyweight champion Riddick "Big Daddy" Bowe in Seoul, South Korea. In a bout that they might not be aware of, 1984 Olympic gold medalist Tyrell Biggs defeated Lennox on the way to the title at the Los Angeles games that year

Future IBF 140-pound world champion "Cool" Vince Phillips scored at least two decision victories in 1985 over future (1988) U.S. Olympian Todd Foster.

Canada's future NABF 175-pound champion Egerton Marcus, who made the 1988 Canadian Olympic team by defeating Otis Grant, scored a decision at over future IBF 168 pound champion Sven Ottke the Seoul Games.

Future heavyweight champ Moorer had those fights at 156 and 165 pounds against Cole and Littles and he also won a decision over future contender Thomas Tate at 156 and split two bouts at 165 with Ottke. When they were kids, Michael fought Gerald McClellan, maybe at 125 pounds, with Gerald coming away with a decision victory over the future heavyweight champ.

Ottke lost a decision to Henry Maske in a 1987 amateur tournament in East Germany and was stopped by Maske in the first round of another fight that same year. In 1994, Ottke fought to a rare draw in amateur boxing with Antonio Tarver. In a 1992 USA-Germany duel meet the German scored a decision over Chris Byrd at 165 pounds.

Maske, meanwhile, defeated future professional foe Graciano Roccigianni in a 1981 German amateur bout. Maske also defeated Egerton Marcus in the 1888 Olympic gold medal match and later on, as professionals, Henry would defeat both of them on 12-round decisions.

"Sugar" Shane Mosley won a decision over Stevie Johnston at the 1989 U.S. Championships. Shane also won a decision over Oscar De La Hoya when they were 12 or 13 years old.

But you probably knew that.

www.IcemanJohnScully.com