Tommy Morrison burst onto the
professional boxing scene in 1988.
Following a first-round knockout of
Charles Hostetetter, October 26th, 1989,
his record stood at 19-0-0, 17
knockouts. Only three opponents had
survived the second round. Sylvester
Stallone and Rocky V provided Morrison a
national fame platform. An October 18th,
1991, fifth-round knockout loss at the
hands of undefeated Ray Mercer
temporarily derailed any title quest.
Morrison won his next eight, which
secured him the opportunity to fight
former heavyweight champion, George
Foreman, 20 years his senior, for the
vacant WBO title.
*****
CHRISTOPHER JAMES SHELTON:
What can you tell me about
your most famous fight, the June 7th,
1993, WBO title bout versus George
Foreman?
TOMMY MORRISON:
What people don’t understand about that
fight is that I had to change my entire
style in eight weeks. By the time that I
faced Foreman I was in perfect shape. I
just dominated him and I was pleased.
CJS: You
altered your entire pugilist approach.
You fought more defensive, with a
willingness to back step, and obviously
prepared yourself for a longer bout. Did
you alter your physical training?
MORRISON:
I have a great story about that. Because
the guy who gave me the advice that beat
Foreman was Foreman himself. I spoke to
him and asked how he was able to fight
longer bouts now that he was older. The
guy was fighting 4-5 rounds when he was
younger and now was fighting 8-10
rounds. Foreman told me to run more, not
to wear myself out, but at a steady
pace. Foreman told me he did this and it
would help my endurance. So that’s what
I did. I ran every Friday and stayed
within my limits as Foreman suggested
and then beat him with his advice.
Foreman told me it was important to pace
myself, so I did.
CJS:
How did you mentally prepare
yourself against Foreman?
MORRISON:
Ordinarily, I will have a
stack of tapes on a fighter and I watch
them. But with Foreman, I only watched
two over and over. I studied his losses
against (Muhammed) Ali and (Jimmy)
Young. I saw how they moved against him
and stayed away. I saw that that’s how
you beat someone like Foreman, to stay
away and pace yourself. In between
rounds, you only get, oh, 50 seconds to
rest. I took advantage of every
opportunity to save my energy. Foreman
felt that I would stand up to him and
fight. He would never have taken that
fight if he thought otherwise. His
people wouldn’t have let him. But when I
saw how Ali and Young beat him, then I
decided to fight him the same way.
Foreman tried to cut off the ring
against me and couldn’t. That’s when I
knew that I had him.
CJS:
At the time you battled
Foreman, aged 44, you were facing the
hardest puncher in boxing history.
Foreman has admitted to being afraid
against certain opponents, Frazier and
Norton (both of whom he knocked out
within two rounds). Did you feel fear
confronting Foreman?
MORRISON:
I had no fear. I knew that I
was facing a legend and I respected
that. Foreman’s a tough guy, but I boxed
his socks off.
CJS:
Could you describe what it
feels like to be hit by the hardest
puncher in boxing history?
MORRISON:
People ask me that question
all the time. I probably get asked that
question more than any other. What’s it
like to be hit by Foreman? Well, my goal
was to not find out and not get hit. (We
both laugh.) He was not the hardest
hitter that I faced. His punches are
slow and you can see them coming. It’s
hard to explain, but in the ring, I see
his punches like slow motion. Because I
see it coming, it gives me the
opportunity to brace myself, so that’s
what I did as it lessens the impact.
Speed generates power and he had no
speed.
CJS:
Foreman landed several low
blows. He was warned repeatedly and was
eventually penalized with a 10th-round
point deduction. An eighth-round low
blow caused the bout to be temporarily
halted so that you could recover.
MORRISON:
Foreman did land low blows,
but I don’t hold that against him.
That’s boxing and he’s a boxer. They say
that Foreman’s a minister and shit, but
when he steps into that ring he’s a
fighter like anyone else. They act like
he’s purer or something like that than
the rest of us. Foreman’s there to fight
and to hurt someone like anyone else. I
understand that. Shit, it’s boxing.
CJS:
Did the low blows affect your
strategy or your ability to win the
bout?
MORRISON:
No, but it affected my sex
life for about a week. (We both laugh.)
That’s about it. Foreman became
desperate because he knew that he was
losing. So that’s what that was about.
CJS:
You had never gone to the 10th
round in a professional bout. How did
you feel as you stepped out for rounds
10, 11, 12?
MORRISON:
I’ll tell you about the 12th
round. I knew that I had Foreman beat
and that there was no way he could win.
I could have coasted, but that wouldn’t
have been me. Things got a little hairy.
I may have a felt a little overwhelmed.
But I hung in there and whipped his ass.
This was a legend, and beating a legend
was a good feeling. I felt proud.
CJS:
Foreman displayed good
sportsmanship after the expected results
announced his defeat. He approached you
and said something. I know you must have
been excited, but do you remember his
congratulatory words?
MORRISON:
He told me that I was the next
Great White Hope. (laughs) Foreman told
me to keep my nose to the grindstone.
Keep to good habits. He basically told
me not to blow this opportunity.
In the midst of the most-exciting
moment of his professional career, these
Foreman words, from someone who was
deemed invincible until Ali &
Rope-A-Dope, proved sadly prophetic.
Four months following the bout, a
first-round Morrison knockout loss at
the hands of Michael Bentt derailed an
$8-million payday with Lennox Lewis.
Meanwhile, Foreman would go on to shock
the world with a 10th-round compact
right to the chin of 28-year-old Michael
Moorer to reclaim the heavyweight
championship on November 5, 1994.
CJS:
You have no natural rival,
like most pugilists. So Foreman
continues to stand out. When was the
last time that you saw him?
MORRISON:
We hooked up at a fight and
benefit about a year ago for charity. We
exchanged words. He was cordial. We are
not buddies or anything like that.
CJS:
Foreman is an openly religious
person. Do you consider yourself
spiritual?
MORRISON:
I’m a spiritual person. I go
to church regularly. I guess that I made
a decision, oh, maybe 11 years ago, back
when I was in trouble to turn things
around. I was in prison, in solitary
confinement, so I did some thinking
while I was there and decided to change.
*****
Tommy Morrison tested HIV-positive
in 1996 and disputes the result today.
CJS:
Why do so many people not
believe your initial HIV-positive test
result was inaccurate?
MORRISON:
Because I didn’t run to Las Vegas and
take the test again when they wanted.
Fuck Vegas! There’s a lot of politics
going on, and that’s what people don’t
understand. Yeah, I could take the HIV
test again, and it will come out
negative, but why should I jump because
Vegas tells me to jump?
CJS:
Do you take any sort of HIV
medication today?
MORRISON:
No, no, no. I took that AZT
shit when I was in prison. All it did
was make me sick. I was throwing up all
the time. I had diarrhea so I was going
to the can and up and down all night
long.
CJS:
You felt the medication was only
making you sicker?
MORRISON:
It does. That is some nasty
shit. I never felt sick until I started
taking that shit.
CJS:
What is your current weight?
MORRISON:
Right now I weigh 222 pounds.
CJS:
That was your prime fighting
weight.
MORRISON:
That’s right. And I feel
healthy and I’m in great shape.
CJS:
What did you want to tell me
about HIV and false-positive results?
MORRISON:
That it happens all the time. I am
in a documentary called House of Numbers
and that’s what it is all about. Many
people have been falsely diagnosed as
positive.
CJS:
What else did you want people
to know about HIV based on your
perspective?
MORRISON:
That it’s all a goddamned conspiracy and
lie. HIV has never killed anybody, and
that’s what people need to know. You can
be exposed 100,000 times to HIV and not
be infected.
CJS:
Why did you believe that the
initial HIV-positive diagnosis was
accurate?
MORRISON:
Well, it is no secret. I’ve
told lots of people. It’s because of
needles. I’ve admitted before that I
used them to inject steroids.
CJS:
If a boxer were to be
diagnosed as HIV-positive, should they
be banned from fighting professionally?
MORRISON:
No, I don’t think an
HIV-positive boxer should be banned from
the ring. All you are doing is being
exposed to anti-bodies. Nobody is going
to die because they are exposed to
anti-bodies. We are all exposed to HIV
every day only nobody knows it because
they don’t become ill. The scientific
research is primitive and still in its
infancy. Truth and scientific facts are
what the public deserves and I’m not
sure they are always getting the truth.
CJS:
So I could have been
HIV-positive or the person reading this,
but we never knew it because our bodies
cured it without our feeling ill?
MORRISON:
Yes. That’s what I am saying.
CJS:
I only want to clarify. So
your refusal to take another test is
because you believe Las Vegas has
treated you unfairly or because you do
not believe in the scientific accuracy
or the American scientific
interpretation of blood results?
MORRISON:
I’ll take another test. I just won’t do
it for Vegas. They lost the results of
the last one. The one that supposedly
condemns me. I have asked to see the
results and they won’t show them to me.
I’ll take another test and it will come
out negative. I just won’t do it for
them.
Françoise Barré-Sinoussi
was the discoverer of what we now call
the HIV virus strain. She was awarded
the Nobel Prize, along with her boss,
Luc Antoine Montagnier, for her efforts.
Barré-Sinoussi calls her 1983
HIV virus strain discovery, “A good
thing,” as she believes it will continue
to assist with detecting cancer or lupus
or so many other immune related
diseases. She currently works at
Institut Pasteur (Paris). Their world
leadership in this scientific field
would likely be the most accurate source
for information regarding this subject
matter. Thus far, Institut Pasteur has
not published an opinion regarding HIV &
pugilism.
*****
I request spontaneous reflection on
some of the professional pugilists that
Morrison has fought.
CJS:
James ‘Quick’ Tillis - (W -
KO1 - 1991)
MORRISON:
That was still early in my career. I was
up and coming. That was a scary fight
for me. I knew that I was up against
someone that could make me look silly in
the ring. Fortunately, I caught him
early with a punch and he never
recovered.
CJS:
Pinklon Thomas - (W - retired
after 1 round - 1991)
MORRISON:
They all got in shape to fight
me and this was a good example. Thomas
came to fight me, because if he wins,
that’s a big deal for him. Timing is
everything in boxing. You have to suck
up to the right promoter. That was his
big chance to beat me, but I got to him
instead.
CJS:
Yuri Vaulin - (W - TKO5 - 1991)
MORRISON:
He was a helluva fighter. He’s
a southpaw and I’m not used to fighting
southpaws, though I have never lost to
one. He was a better fighter than most
people think. The winner was supposed to
fight for the title against either
Foreman or Holyfield. But it didn’t work
out. I couldn’t take him out like I
wanted. That was a tough fight.
CJS:
Ray Mercer - (L - TKO5 - 1991)
MORRISON: Oh Lord! (semi laugh)
My trainer took the blame for that one.
He told me that I would take this guy
out easily in three rounds and that’s
what I trained for. If you watch the
fight, I dominated Mercer for the first
4 rounds. I owned him. But by the end of
the fourth round I had shot my wad and
there was nothing left. My trainer lost
that one for me.
CJS: Joe
Hipp - (W - TKO9 - 1992)
MORRISON:
Joe is a good guy and I like
him. He is a tough guy with a lot of
heart. My hand speed was just too much
for him. But I broke my hands early on,
and then he broke my jaw, or I would
have taken him out earlier than I did.
That was a good fight. It was a great
spectator show. Joe may have been a
puffed up pretender, but he gave it a
great effort.
CJS:
Carl ‘The Truth’ Williams -
(W - TKO8 - 1993)
MORRISON:
Williams came to that fight in
shape. They all came in top shape
against me. It was important to their
careers, better fights, better money if
they could beat me.
CJS:
It was an exciting bout with
mutual knockdowns.
MORRISON:
It was a great fight. If you
look at the history of heavyweight
boxing it is the smaller guys who
dominate and win championships. It is
because they have better leverage and
hand speed. I enjoyed fighting the tall
guys and Williams was a tall one. I just
overpowered him, that was all. He was a
good fighter, but I was better.
CJS:
Michael Bentt - (L - TKO1 -
1993)
MORRISON:
(laughs) I think if I fought
him 100 times, I would beat him 100
times. That’s how much of a better
fighter I am compared to him.
Unfortunately, I walked into a punch and
he put me down. I tried to get up and
fight him–that may have been a
mistake–and by the 3rd time that he put
me down it was over.
CJS:
I gather that you wished you
had been a bit more defensive after that
1st knockdown rather than step in front
of him and continue fighting?
MORRISON:
It’s a humbling experience. I was
humbled by that fight. There was a huge
crowd in Tulsa to come see me fight and
I let them down. I learned from that
fight. I hadn’t been exposed to being
hurt. I wasn’t used to it. Now, I know
better. I only lost 3 times in my career
and those are the ones where I learned
the most… Shit happens… Those losses
helped me to grow.
CJS:
Brian Scott - (W - TKO2 - 1994)
MORRISON:
Brian was not a bad fighter.
He was confused a little in the ring. I
had probably sparred with Brian a couple
of hundred times so we knew each other
well. But he was scared, a bit
frightened. I could see the fear in his
eyes. I made up my mind that I was going
to beat him, but not hurt him. I didn’t
want to hurt him. Brian’s a good guy.
But you can’t show fear in the ring and
he showed fear.
CJS:
Ross Purrity - (Draw - 10
rounds - 1994)
MORRISON:
(an unhappy, disgusted audible
sigh) It was not a good night. You know,
you can’t be flawless every time. There
were a couple fights–and only a couple
fights–when I just wasn’t on my game and
that was one of them.
CJS:
What was the other disappointing
bout?
MORRISON:
The other disappointing fight
was against Lorenzo Canady. This was
early in my career, in ‘89. That was a
six round decision and so disappointing.
(Sylvester) Stallone and the film crew
were there to see me knock this guy out.
They were going to film the actual fight
and then incorporate it into the movie (Rocky
V). But it just wasn’t my night. I
let everybody down. I felt so bad. I
wanted to knock him out and couldn’t.
CJS:
Razor Ruddock - (W - TKO6 -
1995)
MORRISON:
I had wanted that fight for awhile. I
wanted to give the good folks of Kansas
City a legitimate celebration. I like
offensive guys like me, guys who will
stand there and fight.
CJS:
You both knocked each other
down. There is plenty of offense for the
YouTube crowd.
MORRISON:
That’s right. It was a fantastic
spectator fight for the people of Kansas
City and that’s what I wanted. They
deserved a great fight and that’s what
they received. Ruddock was willing to
fight me and I give him credit for that.
CJS:
Lennox Lewis - (L - TKO6 - 1995)
MORRISON:
I wasn’t that impressed by
Lewis. I thought that I would take him
out in three rounds. Unfortunately, I
took a punch to the right eye in the
first round. I tried to avoid getting
hit in the second round. By the third
round, the eye was completely shut, and
that’s what happened there. I was a
sitting duck and he slowly picked me
off.
CJS:
Lewis does not always train
the same for every bout. He was prepared
against you.
MORRISON:
That’s what I am talking about and
what I said earlier. They all prepared
for me as if it was a Championship
fight. It was a chance to take out the
Cracker. (slang: ‘White’ guy)
CJS:
How do you set up for your
famous left hook inside the ring?
MORRISON:
I’m always willing to throw
the left hook. I will give someone the
uppercut, then counter with the hook. I
need about 5 inches, and that’s all.
Otherwise, I will go to the body a lot.
These other fighters won’t go to the
body. But I train for that left hook the
same way that I train for anything. I
work out hard when I train. A lot of
other boxers won’t push themselves the
way that I do. You’ve gotta want to push
your body harder every day. I train
hard. That’s what I do.
CJS:
Mark McGwire, the baseball
star, recently admitted that he used
steroids during the 1990’s. You have
admitted your own usage. How common was
steroid usage amongst Heavyweights
during the 1990s?
MORRISON:
My opinion, and this is just
my opinion, is that everybody was doing
it. But I can’t prove that.
CJS:
We know that baseball players
and track & field athletes commonly used
steroids. It does not seem unreasonable
to suspect that steroids was prevalent
in boxing as well?
MORRISON:
Absolutely, that’s right. People pay
money to see us fight. That’s what we
do. Some people stand on their morals.
They act like they’re better than us or
something. But they paid their money to
see us fight. They didn’t care about
steroids then. It is not just the
athlete that has to take responsibility.
Everybody was a part of it.
*****
CJS:
I know that your childhood was
dysfunctional and difficult. Rather than
dwell on the negative I would prefer
something positive. I understand that
your grandfather was a religious person
and an important role model in your
youth. Could you tell me something about
him?
MORRISON:
The last five generations of
Morrison men were all fighters. The
women were nurses. My grandfather was
undefeated as a pro — 31 and 0 — and was
set to fight Henry Armstrong. But he
quit and became a preacher instead. I
guess that he was my spiritual adviser.
Someone that I respected. (upset and
emotional) I didn’t come from the
greatest family, you know? My family was
a mess. I just didn’t want to be near
home and so I stayed away. (calms
himself) Both my grandfather and
grandmother were wonderful people and I
was lucky to have them.
CJS:
Could you tell me something about
your scholastic life?
MORRISON:
I was an honor student. I
liked school. I enjoyed science and
biology… But I was also a good athlete.
I could really kick a football. I even
thought I might be a professional
punter. But they made at the time, oh,
maybe $200,000 a year, and I felt that I
could make more with boxing. It worked
out in the end.
CJS:
You wanted me to ask about illegal
drugs. What did you want to say?
MORRISON: Just that I am very
anti street drugs. I used to do meth,
and I have been through that stuff.
There was a dark side to my life. I
wasn’t going anywhere. People were
wondering if I would ever get my act
together.
CJS:
What made you to stop crystal
meth or other drugs?
MORRISON:
It was prison. I had to go
away and think about my life and all
that I had been through. I had felt for
awhile that God was tugging on my arm.
But I kept running away. God finally put
me in a place where I could not run.
CJS:
So you are saying that
spirituality cleansed you of illegal
street drug usage?
MORRISON:
That’s what did it for me. I thought
that maybe God wanted me to talk about
it. It’s a helluva story–my life–a real
roller coaster ride. I thought that by
telling the truth of that story, the bad
with the good, it might ultimately do
someone else some good.
CJS:
The theme of your website,
www.tommythedukemorrison.com,
is redemption. That it is okay to get
knocked down in life as long as you
stand again. Is there something else
that you would like people to know?
MORRISON:
Just that I have a retreat,
The Tommy Morrison Foundation, which
allows kids with cancer two weeks at
camp to enjoy themselves and forget
about their problems. They can go
swimming and hiking and fishing and be a
kid again, rather than dealing with
shit.
CJS:
A cancer diagnosis from a
doctor must sound similar to an
HIV-positive diagnosis. You have
admitted that you handled your own 1996
diagnosis poorly, sort of surrendered in
life and eventually wound up in prison.
What would you say to a young person
that receives a cancer diagnosis so that
they do not repeat your mistake?
MORRISON:
I would tell them, ‘Forget
about it. Live your life!’ I think some
of these parents almost want their kids
to die and get it over with. It’s a
difficult situation for the parents,
too, and maybe the kids get put on the
back burner as a result.
CJS:
So you are saying that kids
with a cancer diagnosis almost have to
take care of themselves?
MORRISON:
You are damned right! These kids have to
learn not to give up on themselves.
Don’t just die because someone says you
are going to die. Work on your mind and
your physical body. Lots of these kids
heal themselves, both physically and
mentally, by believing in themselves and
not someone else.
CJS: I
know that you will attend the camp and
meet the kids. How will you work with
them?
MORRISON:
I will show them basic
exercises. Nothing too stressful. I just
want to show them how to work the mind
and body. Mostly, I’ll tell these kids -
some of whom are told they only have 6
months to live - ‘Forget about it. Be a
kid again and enjoy yourself'.
